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Should Guns Be Permitted on Company Parking Lots?
As Barb reported, new laws are springing up all over the United States restricting how employers deal with employees who bring firearms onto company parking lots.
According to the poll (below left), SafetyXChange members are divided on the topic. The poll’s still open, so if you haven’t yet, vote now. Should employers be allowed to ban employees from storing firearms in their vehicles on company parking lots, whether lawfully stored or not?
There’s also quite a debate over whether or not a firearm legally stored in a vehicle actually poses a risk to workers. What do you think? Join the debate.
No matter where you stand, it does present a unique challenge to American safety managers: crafting safety policies without violating your employees’ rights. That’s one of the issues that will be covered in our upcoming audio conference. Join us as James P. Anelli explains what you need to know about the new firearms laws.
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I think the opinions on this matter will be colored by our feelings about gun control in general, and I would like to see a breakdown of opinions divided by the person's stance on gun control in general.
Having said that, a crowd that is likely to produce a gun in a fight is just as likely to produce a knife in a fight. Do we ban knives as well? And none of this matters until enforcement takes place. A rule such as 'no guns allowed' might be dismissed with the perception of tacit approval if vehicle inspections do not take place. We can legislate ourselves into yet another corner with this.
A properly stored gun requires several steps to make ready, by most state laws. A person who does not store it properly probably wont be too concerned about the rules that allow or disallow them in the first place, ergo nothing is gained by more government requirements besides the notion that 'we tried'.
My answer is yes. As a facility manager, and a concealed permit holder, it is statistically true that banning firearms at the workplace (or any other location) will serve only to create a place where a bad guy will know that there is no deterrence against gun violence. Only law abiding employees and citizens obey gun restriction regulations. If a bad guy shows up (or is in the workplace) they will have a gun regardless of the regulations. If there are no law abiding good employees or citizens then there is no deterrence.
If a firearm is locked up in a vehicle I see no problem. Then if an emergency should arise and it is needed one can get to it.
Having worked in the mountains of Pennsylvania I have always noticed rifles in trucks during hunting season. There it was like a passage if you did not hunt people wondered what meat you ate during the year. I remember asking about it and the HR manager said it was an unpopular topic since the employee may go hunting before they come to work or after they leave work. So we never addressed it.
Here in North Carolina, guns are everywhere and we have posted signs no weapons allowed on site but we do not go through cars looking.
I will be interested in what others say about this since there have been stories about an employee being fired and going to the parking lot to retrieve his weapon.
George Crosby
EH&S Engineer
Statesville North Carolina
I grew up in Pennsylvania and did not understand that Thanksgiving Monday was not a holiday everywhere until I left the state. Thanksgiving Monday is the Monday after Thanksgiving, which is also the first day of buck (male deer) season. Hunting is part of the culture in this part of the country. Being educated about how to safely use guns is also a part of the culture.
If somebody wants to come into a facilty to commit an act of violence, whether with a firearm or not, the really won't be concerned about the rules.
James Oswalt, P.E, CSP
Director EH&S
California
People kill people, not guns. I agree that in making policy against guns, then, the only people with the guns would be those that would disregard the policy anyway. The same types of people that would disregard gun storage requirements. Here's an interesting story: after hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans, law enforcement officers went around to all registered gun owners and confiscated their guns "for their own protection". But then, the local law enforcement left town leaving those citizens to fend for themselves with no means of protection. The only ones with guns were local thugs and outlaws with unregistered guns to rob and pillage at will. While the law abiding citizenry was laft defenseless. I, am not a gun owner because I have never seen the need to own one, however, I am a strong supporter of a person's constitutional rights. PEOPLE KILL, GUNS DON'T
That would depend on the nature of the work and the location of the workplace. Guns have no place, generally speaking, in a workplace; however, if the work or the location presents perils and the worker with the gun has been properly trained and recognizes the inherent responsibility and ALSO accepts the horror of taking a life, then a firearm may be appropriate.
If the gun has no job-related purpose then it is non-essential. If the owner of the weapon is not prepared to use it for it's intended purpose, then the presence of the gun is a liability.
Policy regarding guns on site should be decided by each company based on necessity, risk, safety training and liability, including having to pay for the weapon if it is stolen from the vehicle while on site.
I believe that there is no problem if you are legally abiding to laws (concealed weapon permit, stored properly) and the workplace has no real enforcement they can 'infringe' upon... (search and seziure for instance). I agree with others in this comment section above. People who have and carry, are going to regardless. People are the threat and not the weapon/firearm.
Basically, what I see this as, is if you do carry (legally & properly) this is more of a constitutional right, and doing such (banning on worksite in vehicles) would not only be impossible to verify, enforce, etc.. but the owner would have to what?... take it out of the vehicle each morning when so and so goes to work, then put it back in when home after work,... etc.,... you see where this is going?!
As a CWP holder, firearm owner, hunter & Fisher,... who normally does participate in these recreational activities directly after & FROM work regularly... this pretty much ammounts to what I would consider a workplace tactic that would not only fail completley, but would be ignored and quite literally get a 'laugh and roll of the eyes' from similar minded employees that would only at MOST give lip service to please (what?,.. HR, management, etc.) the company enforcers(?), and go their own 'jolly' way.
The law allows Floridians that have a concealed weapons permit to keep a gun in their vehicle.
We are a public utility and do not allow guns in the workplace. To make a big deal of a law that we have to abide by would only draw attention to something that is not a problem.
Some employees have a CWP for a reason. E.g. they were or have a spouse that are employed in law enforcement or a corrections facility. We would put them in harms way if they couldn't have a weapon in their possession when leaving the workplace.
My HR director is anti-guns, but she keeps her opinion in check and allows employees to do what the law allows. I don't think she knows of any employees that actually have a weapon in their vehicle.
And, that's probably a good thing.